We watch a lot of Discovery Channel shows like 'The Biggest Loser' and even 'Amazing Race.' You learn a lot about the world it's fun and nobody's interested in beating anybody down. And then the opposite: I'm a huge fan of 'Survivor.'

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All those years we'd spent learning these chops and all those gigs in Germany where you'd play all night and along comes punk. It has nothing to do with that. A lot of people went out of business.